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27 Jun 2008 02:12 pm Post subject: Ultra capacitor
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Lockheed Martin Signs Agreement with EEStor
Posted in: Battery, Competitors, Research
eestor2.jpg
Mostly, we talk about the Volt here, but relevant and related topics are
often worth discussing.
We have previously discussed a secretive Texas company called EEStor,
who are reported to be working on a new type of ultra capacitor that can
hold 10x the energy in 1/10th the weight of typical batteries, at a
fraction of the cost.
They have an agreement to produce caps for Zenn electric cars but to
date have not shown any prototypes. This has led some to suspect EEStor
as not having the technology they report.
Today, however, Lockheed Martin, the major U.S. military equipment
manufacturer has announced a partnership agreement with EEStor to
develop energy applications.
If these ultra caps can really deliver what they are projected to, they
could offer a dramatic advantage for electric vehicles.
To that end, I interviewed Lionel Liebman, manager of Program
Development – Applied Research at Lockheed Martin Missiles and Fire
Control.
The entire interview can be seen by clicking below.
Can you tell me what your announcement was today?
Lockheed Martin and EEStor are working together to find areas for
integrating their technology to a variety of power management platforms
we’re working on.
Is it a financial contract?
We’re not taking any sort of ownership of EEStor. It is an exclusive
rights agreement to allow us to market these technologies to a very
limited number of potential customers including homeland security and
the defense markets.
Lockheed Martin builds fighter jets and military equipment?
And missiles, rockets, ground equipment, vehicles, and systems sensors.
Obviously everything that requires power to operate. Power is becoming a
sticking point or burden to the warfighter and that’s one of the things
were focused on is coming up with solutions that make the war fighter's
job easier and more efficient.
Are you looking to develop portable energy storage for the battlefield?
Yes there are opportunities not only to help in the area of relieving
some of the dependence on fuel as energy. Also to increase the value of
some of the renewable energy initiatives that are going on right now.
Energy storage increase the value of these types of power generation
technologies. EEStor’s technology can help in that area.
What have you seen from EEStor in terms of their technology?
We’ve visited their facility. We were very impressed. They are taking an
approach that lends itself to a very quick ramp-up in production. We’ve
seen a lot of their testing and efforts to measure the purity of the
powders that they use, and the chemistry. Well be working with them very
closely this year to develop prototypes in certain pursuits.
Have you been able to evaluate any of their current prototypes?
That’s an effort that’s ongoing. We’re really just getting started to
integrate their technology into some of the efforts that we have going
on here. That’s going to be something that we’re doing this year.
So its a collaborative effort to build the prototypes then?
That’s right.
Do they have something that they’ve tested that you’ve seen which makes
you want to work with them?
We haven’t personally tested their prototypes yet. Its something that
we’ll work on together this year.
How does Lockheed Martin feel about ultracaps and storage versus li-ion
or NiMh batteries?
Lockheed Martin doesn’t have a bias. One way or another its really just
a function of what does the customer want. For certain applications
being able to provide pulse power is really really important, in another
its not so much really pulse power but continuous power. If you talk to
the Army they are really interested in hybridized solutions. Suffice it
to say that EEStor’s technology is a piece of some of these systems
solutions that we come up with. We are a system integrator so we look at
the EEStor technology as a building block or a tool in a toolbox to
provide the best solutions for the soldier.
Do you see the ultracap as a power solution or an energy solution?
The EEStor chemistry and architecture lends itself to both types of
applications. Its a scalable technology. In the situation where you are
trying to store energy, transport it without discharge obviously thats
very attractive in the utility grid load leveling (situation). If your
talking about powering for example a high energy weapon that requires a
short burst of energy a capacitor is a great approach to do that.
Capacitors are in hybridized systems today for that reason. The
chemistry is great purely form the view of battery technology but its
also very attractive for some of these extremely high pulse power
applications.
Are you looking to use this technology in any vehicular type of
application?
We have a number of platforms that were working on. Our applied research
group is primarily focused on land forces power management which
involves several area including vehicular power.
The needs of a consumer for a hybrid fuel-efficient car versus the need
for a soldier in the battlefield are a bit different. The common theme
there is ‘what can we do to make them more efficient’, and battery
technology is important for that.
Are you confident that their technology will offer a greater amount of
energy and power density than batteries?
Yes, and at a fraction of the cost.
Do their caps hold 10x the energy at 1/10th the weight of a lead acid
battery?
Yes.
How does the the price of EEStor’s capacitors compare with Li-ion or
NiMh batteries?
It really depends on the chemistry, the volume, the packaging, the
application. It is really application-specific. It’s going to be lower
price. Were not just concerned about hardware cost. Really what were
focused on is logistics. Especially the logistics footprint in theater.
That’s probably more important than material cost. And that one of the
things that we think this technology can bring. Because it can be used
for a variety of applications with a common architecture and chemistry.
Its compact, its scalable and can be applied to a variety of
applications. That obviously very attractive to a logistics community,
to have more common components and that type of thing.
Is there a production plan for 2008?
Yes for EEStor. Their approach is when they start manufacturing these
batteries, not just the cells, but also the package assembly, they will
be in production. If you can get a visit to EEStor they’ll show you
their process and everything they’ve got in place to support that.
Assuming that everything comes together in terms of tests and
qualifications and that sort of thing, they will be ready to ramp up
very quickly, because of the nature if the architecture and scalability
of what they are doing.
Can you say anything about the use of EEStor’s technology in commercial
vehicles?
We are basically working with them exclusively and in the homeland
security and defense department’s markets. The commercial vehicle
market, that’s what EEStor will pursue. If their is a military
application then we’re going to help them integrate their technology
into those applications, but when it comes to commercial vehicles that’s
EEStor’s responsibility.
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Taco
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PostPosted: 27 Jun 2008 02:13 pm Post subject: (cheap storage Reply with
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I had pretty much written EEStor off as vaporware at this point. This is
a fairly encouraging development. If they can deliver, it should vastly
accelerate the electrification of transportation, not to mention
speeding the adoption of home based solar (cheap storage).
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Taco
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PostPosted: 27 Jun 2008 02:14 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
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I think most people had written EEStor off, as you can see from some of
the comments at MIT’s Tech Review site:
http://www.technologyreview.com/Biztech/18086/
You can’t underestimate how big this is if EEStor pulls it off. It would
replace batteries in any application that can justify the cost of extra
power electronics. Hell, at that energy density, who will be the first
to make an EEStor powered airplane?
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Taco
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PostPosted: 27 Jun 2008 02:21 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
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For decades, battery storage technology has been a heavy weight on the
back of scientific innovation. From cell phones to electric vehicles,
our technological capabilities always seem to be several steps ahead of
our ability to power them. Several promising new technologies are
currently under development to help power the 21st century, but one
small start-up looks especially well positioned to transform the way we
think about energy storage.
Texas-based EEStor, Inc. is not exactly proposing a new battery, since
no chemicals are used in its design. The technology is based on the idea
of a solid state ultracapacitor, but cannot be accurately described in
these terms either. Ultracapacitors have an advantage over
electrochemical batteries (i.e. lithium-ion technology) in that they can
absorb and release a charge virtually instantaneously while undergoing
virtually no deterioration. Batteries trump ultracapacitors in their
ability to store much larger amounts of energy at a given time.
EEStor’s take on the ultracapacitor -- called the Electrical Energy
Storage Unit, or EESU -- combines the best of both worlds. The advance
is based on a barium-titanate insulator claimed to increase the specific
energy of the unit far beyond that achievable with today’s
ultracapacitor technology. It is claimed that this new advance allows
for a specific energy of about 280 watts per kilogram -- more than
double that of the most advanced lithium-ion technology and a whopping
ten times that of lead-acid batteries. This could translate into an
electric vehicle capable of traveling up to 500 miles on a five minute
charge, compared with current battery technology which offers an average
50-100 mile range on an overnight charge. As if that weren’t enough, the
company claims they will be able to mass-produce the units at a fraction
the cost of traditional batteries.
"It's a paradigm shift," said Ian Clifford of ZENN Motor Co., an early
investor and exclusive rights-holder for use of the technology in
electric cars. "The Achilles' heel to the electric car industry has been
energy storage. By all rights, this would make internal combustion
engines unnecessary."
But this small electric car company isn’t the only organization banking
on the new technology. Lockheed-Martin, the world’s largest defense
contractor, has also signed on with EEStor for use of the technology in
military applications. Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers, a venture
capital investment firm who counts Google and Amazon among their
early-stage successes, has also invested heavily in the company.
While these associations have lent merit to the claims, skeptics abound.
Some have even invoked the term alchemy -- a word used in its derogatory
sense to discredit 'pipe dream' inventions. "We've been trying to make
this type of thing for 20 years and no one has been able to do it.
Depending on who you believe, they're at or beyond the limit of what is
possible," said Robert Hebner of the University of Texas Center for
Electromechanics.
If it is true, though, then it will be tantamount to a whole new
post-battery era in technology. The company claims the technology can be
scaled up or down for virtually any application, from pacemakers to use
in the renewable energy sector (think solar panels). If it comes to
fruition, the technology could revolutionize virtually every aspect of
energy storage. Further, because it is based on solid state architecture
and is not dependent on chemicals, the technology would be extremely
safe, environmentally friendly, and benefit from an unparalleled
lifespan.
Zenn’s Ian Clifford has visited EEStor’s upcoming production facility in
Cedar Park, Texas on several occasions. "To be very clear, this is not a
lab that they are building. It is a full, state of the art production
facility that is nearing completion, and we remain very pleased with
their progress," he boasts.
After several delays, EEStor plans to roll out the first production
units later this year, and Zenn hopes to have cars featuring EESU
technology on the road by Fall 2009.
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zac
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New postPosted: 28 Jun 2008 06:05 pm Post subject: A highway speed
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A highway speed vehicle with an ultracapacitor from EEStor is due to
roll out in the fall of 2009. Ask insiders who work for EEStor about the
energy storage product the company is building, and they'll tell you
it's superior. A delayed battery technology may indeed be on the
way."will change everything"
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zac
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New postPosted: 28 Jun 2008 06:20 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
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We have given ultra coverage to the ultra secretive ultracapacitor that
was coming someday from EEStor, but it has been looking like Mr. Fusion
might beat it to market. We might not have to illustrate our posts with
grilled cheese sandwiches for much longer; Lockheed has signed "signed
an exclusive international rights agreement to integrate and market
Electrical Energy Storage Units (EESU) from EEStor, Inc., for military
and homeland security applications." (read press release) Of course of
it goes into its Skunk Works we may still be showing Mr. Fusion
pictures.
The press release says "EESU qualification testing and mass production
at EEStor’s facility in Cedar Park is planned for late 2008." which is
more information than EEstore ever gave out. Tyler Hamilton notes in
Clean Break:
It's later than we all expected, but "late 2008" at least gives us
something new to measure the company by. Besides, it appears the late
2008 applies just to Lockheed, according to one source close to EEStor.
ZENN Motors, according to the source, "expects delivery before Lockheed
Martin as the existing plant is exclusively for ZENN production."
Tyler thinks this all good news:
This news is important, just because of the credibility it brings to
EEStor and what it's trying to do. As many have commented on this blog
and others, delays are expected when you're trying to introduce a
technology with such a disruptive potential. This exclusive agreement
with Lockheed tells us there's enough potential there that this defense
contracting giant -- and perhaps the U.S. government -- doesn't want the
technology to fall into its competitors' hands. What would be more
interesting is to find out the terms of this deal, which were not
disclosed. Has Lockheed made an investment in EEStor? Has Kleiners upped
the ante? Who else is on the board?
Lots of unanswered questions, but increased confidence now that they'll
be answered over time
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zac
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New postPosted: 28 Jun 2008 06:20 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
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Tinfoil hat time: US based oil and car companies, eager to protect
markets for SUV's and MegaMonster Trucks, convince Pentagon project mgrs
to specify ultra capacitors so the supply chain gets locked away from
pubic view.
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zac
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New postPosted: 28 Jun 2008 06:20 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
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Well this certainly ruins my day.
The solution to the worlds battery problems has been bought out by the
US War machine. I guess the rest of the world might be able to get their
hands on it in about 20-40 years.
Fine - Good for EEStor and the US military for making more efficient
warfighters. I'm glad for you. But this exclusivity does not help out
the rest of the world with the efficient, clean energy needs of today.
If the US is going to comeback from this recession and become what it
once was, we need to take the opportunity of developing new technologies
such as these and selling this domestically and to the rest of the
world.
We should GIVE this technology to developing countries so that they can
avoid the type of polution that we created during the Industrial
Revolution.
This kind of product can save our economy, improve our report with other
nations, and save us from Global Warming. But no. They sell it to the
highest bidder and lock it away in a closet so that others won't know
about it.
If this were plans for a nuclear device, I would understand this. But in
this case, I do not. I'm truly disgusted.
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zac
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New postPosted: 28 Jun 2008 06:21 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
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Why are we all complaining about this? Most likely then this technology
is not economically feasible at all - and if it is not, which one of us
consumers is likely going ti buy it?
The buyer of this - the US military - is known and famous for
squandering billions on worthless, un-proven technology as well as
astronomically figures for marginally better technology such as stealth
figher airplanes at 1.8 billion USD - per airplane...
Even if this technology actually works as well as advertisied (which it
most likely doesn't) then who cares...really? The main problem is still
producing electricity at economically feasible prices - and, wind
turbines today or within max 5 years will be cheaper at making
electricity - per kilowatt - than even coal.
And no government or group of companies can prevent that.
So, "the marketplace" will take care of this problem which is already
solved.
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zac
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New postPosted: 28 Jun 2008 06:21 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
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This could be a world changing product. While I might not be thrilled
with the military getting their hands on any part of it, I am thrilled
that it appears to be a genuine product and not vapor.
If they deliver even close to what they've said in patents solar/wind
and any other alternative energy source is instantly cost effective.
I put up my first solar system in 1984 and it's still running strong.
The only drawback to the system is energy storage.
I say with absolute certainty that if I could get a storage system that
had 53kwh with less than 2% loss, fast recharge/discharge and a cycle
life long enough that it's not worth tracking all for less than $5,000 I
could go off the grid with no loss in comfort whatsoever.
I know the average use in the U.S. is higher than most roof systems, but
that doesn't include lower draw appliances that could be developed that
are still as good but not deemed cost effective for grid use.
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zac
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New postPosted: 28 Jun 2008 06:22 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
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Folks. calm down. The US military, NASA and the US Gov have invented and
bank rolled many technologies for their own purposes that have
revolutionized the world. Velcro, TCP/IP that makes the Internet
possible was developed for battle field to HQ communication, Solar
Panels were bankrolled for satellites these are just off the top of my
head. This is good news. while war and the military industrial complex
may be evil from many points of view, it doesn't change the fact that
this will help this company get to economies of scale and work out real
world bugs. Our tax dollars get flushed down the million dollar toilet
all the time, might has well have them go towards something like this.
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zac
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New postPosted: 28 Jun 2008 06:22 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
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Wow, lots of people here that seem a wee bit biased against the
military. Just to point out some of the things they have done for us
that are loved the rest of the time:
Computers: we wouldn't have these if not for military code breakers, so
if its got a integrated circuit in it anywhere thank Arpa and Darpa
investment dollars.
Automated Flight Controls: The reason aircraft are so much more
comfortable than they were in the 70's and 80's, automated controls deal
with turbulence better than human operators.
Industrial robots: the sensors and logic were initially used for defense
manufacturing projects before being adopted by the auto industry.
Anything space based.
GPS
Cell Phones
The inter-web-way-tunnel-pipes thing. (sorry if you don't get this
reference)
Solar Cells (back to spacecraft)
And a crap load of other basic science research and products you'd never
think about (like super glue, originally intended as a battlefield wound
closure) that has helped us in countless ways. And before you get all
huffy and try to point out how this or that was developed at some
university, not in a military lab, you might want to look at where the
majority of that money comes from: Darpa, US Army Research, US Air Force
Space Command, etc.
Don't get me wrong, the military often funds things that don't work out,
so I have no real opinion yet on where this particular contract will go,
but we should be thankful that the military funds so much basic science
research in this country because despite all the failures it has
provided a number of true gems as well. And no one else is stepping up
to fund those types of projects.
From a scientists standpoint the military is actually alot easier to
work with than many corporate funders exactly because of there
willingness to fund so much stuff without an obvious payoff.
Corporations cancel research projects that wont be profitable fast
enough, regardless of the long term potential, the military has a much
longer term viewpoint to research.
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zac
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New postPosted: 28 Jun 2008 06:23 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
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I agree with you bakaman, but just the same, if you look at your own
list there's a number of those inventions that didn't see the light of
day for years.
GPS is the one I'm most familiar with and they kept that a secret for a
good ten years and then when they did release it they built in error in
the first coding for defense purposes.
What I worry about is the military getting their batteries for years
before they have any commercial contracts.
Even when commercial gets their ands on them it might not to the most
good. If this is as good as they say then everyone will want one.
Everything from tools to laptops will stand in line, and they pay more
because they'll buy a smaller unit.
Where's the last two applications to get one? I'd say EV's and energy
storage for solar/wind and such. That's where these babies will change
the world.
If it's true at all that is.
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zac
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New postPosted: 28 Jun 2008 06:23 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
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If this stuff works (and I cannot see any technical reason why it should
not) and can be produced economically, then it really doesn't matter if
it is covered by a US military patent, as there will still be a leak.
Geeks talk to geeks at the end of the day, so as soon as it is proven
technology China will soon after start rolling their own, leaving the US
to decide whether to allow commercial development, or lose out
economically.
Also, it is highly unlikely that this is the only way to make
ultra-caps, so even without a leak we will see them sooner or later.
Hopefully common-sense will prevail on this one, though I'd expect
idiocy to have a really good first go, as usual.
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New postPosted: 28 Jun 2008 06:24 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
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There are many doubters about eestors ability to produce this battery
with the specifications they have announced ...it would be world
changing for sure
I would love to buy a plug in hybrid based on this battery and recharged
with electricity produced by possibly a new solar cell technology
announced by SUNRGI which supposedly will produce solar power for $.05
per kwh
wholesale and also run on ethanol (possibly produced by a new process
announced by COSKATA who claims they will be able to produce ethanol for
$1.00 a gallon....
What a dream.....sometimes dreams come true.
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Can you imagine EESTOR giving away rights to Lockheed for nothing? I
don't think so.
The delays are troubling. I have been in several venture funded
startups. The VCs aren't always aware of what is really going on behind
the scenes. In two of the startups that I was a part of- the management
lied or withheld vital information from the VCs. In one startup all but
one of the founders were fired.
What confuses me is the small amount of funding I have heard about for
EESTOR. A battery powered car startup recently got $200 million in
funding.
Something is fishy. It doesn’t make sense. If EESTOR were successful it
would be a trillion dollar business.
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PostPosted: 28 Jun 2008 06:25 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
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EEStor Continues to Generate Buzz
Grant Slater of the Associated Press wrote a great article about EEStor
and Patent No. 7,033,406. If this new capacitor technology is everything
that they’ve hyped it up to be (drive your electric car 500 miles on a
5-minute plug-in to the wall) it is game changing on many levels.
On the plus side is all our hopes and dreams of more efficient energy
storage. One of the top venture capital companies in the country,
Kleiner Perkins, has invested $3M in the company which is an admittedly
small amount. They’ve also licensed the technology to ZENN Motor. So
there are a handful of people who have had a chance to perform due
dilligence on the technology.
On the negative side there are a few very learned materials science
folks who specialize in this area who are skeptical.
It will be interesting to see what unfolds, but the company has
positioned itself to be either a hero or goat. Only time will tell.
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